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  1. #571
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    As if things aren't bad enough.

    As If Things Aren’t Bad Enough, Trump Mulls Fresh Trade War With China
    U.S. officials including President Donald Trump are increasingly banging the drums of a renewed trade war with China, spooking global markets that are already reeling from the unprecedented economic fallout of the coronavirus pandemic.
    Stock markets across Europe opened lower Monday—and were joined hours later when New York opened—on fears that the Trump administration’s effort to shift blame for the coronavirus outbreak will bring with it a renewal of the destructive trade policies between the world’s two biggest economies. That trade war, including tit-for-tat tariffs and trade restrictions, acted as a drag on global growth in 2018 and 2019, before seemingly being put to rest earlier this year with the signing of the so-called phase one trade deal.
    Derek Scissors, a China expert at the American Enterprise Institute, said that so far Trump has been anxious to preserve his phase-one trade deal with China, even though the economic benefits pale in comparison to the carnage wrought by the pandemic. But as he ramps up his reelection campaign, Trump “will have to turn on China, he will have to politically, but we will get crap” policies, Scissors said.
    If Trump’s initial trade war with China was a case of politics outweighing economics—the tariffs and Chinese retaliatory measures inflicted harm on both economies but scratched a political itch—that’s doubly true for any prospective resumption of the trade war. While just a few weeks ago, Trump was praising his “friend” Xi Jinping for how the Chinese president handled the coronavirus, U.S. frustration with China’s role in the initial outbreak and its early handling of the crisis has snowballed.
    The first wave of tariffs in 2018 and 2019 came at a time of robust U.S. economic growth, when higher costs for businesses and consumers were bearable. Today, with GDP shrinking at unprecedented rates and tens of millions of people suddenly thrown out of work, raising the costs for U.S. businesses and consumers would be doubly self-destructive. China’s uneven experience with trying to resume economic activity after months of forced shutdown offers a glimpse of how prolonged and painful the U.S. economic rebound will be, even after lockdowns are lifted, Magnus said.

    “The hangover from this will be quite extensive, so I don’t see what the mileage is by compounding that problem by putting new tariffs on the economy,” he said.
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/04...2020-election/

  2. #572
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    I said it all along. We, the taxpayer footed the bill for the damage done by this tariff war. The damage done relates to lowering the market value of companies by 1.7 Trillion dollars.
    Now I know articles like this never change the minds of the faithful. It's fake news, or bias reporting, but the numbers don't lie.
    In the end, we pay for everything. Including the failed idea of a tariff war, and resulting failures of the businesses that worked to make their businesses open to international trade.

    Trade-war collateral damage: destruction of $1.7 trillion in U.S. companies’ market value
    How do you make $1.7 trillion disappear? A trade war is one way, a new report has found.
    A study by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York adds to previous findings that, despite pronouncements from the White House, Americans are paying — and paying stiffly — for the U.S.-China trade war.
    The billions in tariffs hurled back and forth between Washington and Beijing have reduced the market value of U.S.-listed companies by $1.7 trillion during the course of the 2-year-old tax offensive. The conflict will continue to weaken the investment growth rate for these businesses up to two percentage points by year’s end, the study said.
    The trade war is causing financial loss for several reasons, from the inefficient pricing that taxes can create, to supply disruptions, to companies’ pricey adaptations to the levies, among others. But this particular cause of losses is largely sentiment-based.
    Several findings surprised economists. One was the sustained hit that stocks took from 11 specific policy announcements over the two years. But whether it was Washington, Beijing or even a third-party country announcing its often pugnacious trade intent, U.S. businesses “bore virtually all of the costs,” the report said.
    Even when it was China that was hurt there often was pain caused to American businesses along the way. The slowing of the Chinese economy partly because of the hostilities, and China’s nontariff counterattacks, “likely diminished the returns [U.S.] firms made on investments in the Chinese market.”
    No one expected a protectionism contest between the world’s superpowers to be cheap. But the costs have come in various forms and often with America left holding the bill.
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...eid=bullytweet

  3. #573
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    Default Trump's China Trade War Could Lead To Xi's Destruction

    https://www.theamericanconservative....s-destruction/
    The attack by the Trump Administration on shoddy financial disclosure at Chinese firms is long overdue, but comes at a time when the political evolution in China is turning decidedly authoritarian in nature and against any pretense of market-oriented development. The rising power of state companies in China parallels the accumulation of power in the hands of Xi Jinping, who is increasingly seen as a threat to western-oriented business leaders. The trade tensions with Washington provide a perfect foil to crack down on popular unrest in Hong Kong and discipline wayward oligarchs.

    The latest moves by Beijing to take full control in Hong Kong are part of the more general retrenchment visible in China. “[P]rivate entrepreneurs are increasingly nervous about their future,” writes Henny Sender in the Financial Times. “In many cases, these entrepreneurs have U.S. passports or green cards and both children and property in America. To be paid in U.S. dollars outside China for their companies must look more tempting by the day.” A torrent of western oriented Chinese business leaders is exiting before the door is shut completely.
    The trade war is underway and in earnest. If you had predicted prior to 2016 that America would have a nationalist president who was willing to discard the puerile corporate interests that want closer commercial ties with China and instead pursue America’s strategic interests, most people would have rightly laughed. In 2016, we awaited the enthronement of Hillary Clinton, but remarkably got Donald Trump, who is not afraid to use China as a useful political whipping boy while also pursuing a strategy to destabilize one of the last truly authoritarian regimes on earth.

    Mao Tse Tung said: “A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.”

    The truth is that China has always been weak, even if its outward behavior is aggressive, even obnoxious. But beneath the confident exterior is a nation that still cannot feed itself, lacks stable sources of energy and is addicted to using debt to spur short-term economic growth. As Chinese in Hong Kong and other parts of China demand greater openness and accountability, the grip on power of the Chinese Communist Party is weakening. In order to retain power, Xi Jinping must be ready to use even harsher authoritarian methods, a path that will ultimately lead to his destruction.
    Last edited by slavenomore; 05-30-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  4. #574
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    China and agricultural purchases. They have warned they would stop buying over the Hong Kong issue. Along with every other problem, this creates more turmoil in the agricultural markets.

    China buys U.S. soybeans after halt to U.S. purchases ordered
    State-owned Chinese firms bought at least three cargoes of U.S. soybeans on Monday, even as sources in China said the government had told them to halt purchases after Washington said it would eliminate special treatment for Hong Kong to punish Beijing.
    The purchases, totaling at least 180,000 tonnes of the oilseed, were for shipment in October or November, the peak U.S. soy export season when American soybeans are usually the cheapest in the world, three U.S. traders with knowledge of the deals said.
    It was not immediately clear why buying continued after Beijing’s message to state-owned firms, but U.S. traders said Chinese importers still have not covered a large share of October and November soybean needs.
    Earlier, two sources familiar with the matter said China had told state-owned firms to halt large-scale U.S. soybean and pork purchases, and one of the sources said state purchases of U.S. corn and cotton have also been put on hold.
    The soybean sales on Monday were small compared to recent purchases by state-owned firms totaling 1 million tonnes or more at a time.

    China is ready to suspend imports of more American agriculture products if Washington takes further action on Hong Kong, the sources said.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN238264

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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    Been a while since we visited this issue. But it's not forgotten. It's just another of the many burning fires in Washington. Right now, it possibly wasn't a good idea to start an economic war, along with alienating every country we were friends with.
    This article and the synopsis is from a conservative issue advocacy group based in Washington, D.C., aligned to the Republican Party called the "American Action Forum".
    They focused on research data and actual numbers to determine the tariffs have cost the American tax payer billions.
    Some of us already knew that.

    The Total Cost of Trump’s Tariffs
    One of President Trump’s most prominent policy actions since taking office has been to raise tariffs, which significantly harm the U.S. economy. Trade barriers such as tariffs increase the cost of both consumer and producer goods and depress the economic benefits of competition, inhibiting economic growth. Research suggests that the president’s tariffs have been directly responsible for reducing both imports and exports, raising prices, and reducing national welfare. Research also suggests that the entire cost of the tariffs has been borne by U.S. importers.
    The president’s tariffs, when combined with corresponding retaliation, threaten over $460 billion of traded goods annually. The following analysis calculates the overall impact these tariffs could have on the prices of goods in the United States.
    Altogether, the president’s tariffs could increase nationwide consumer costs by nearly $57 billion annually.
    The president’s tariffs have significantly affected U.S. trade levels. Research has found that the tariffs caused importers to shift away from China and reorganize supply chains. Even more, the president’s tariffs have decreased trade altogether – both imports and exports – which raises prices and reduces options for both consumers and businesses in the United States.
    In addition to raising costs for American consumers, tariffs have also resulted in significant retaliation by other countries against U.S. exports. Table 4 below details every retaliatory action taken against the United States thus far and the value of U.S. exports that are adversely affected.
    To date, six nations have levied retaliatory tariffs up to 70 percent on approximately $112 billion of U.S. exports. These tariffs do not include retaliation by Canada and Mexico; following the reversal of U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs, both Canada and Mexico withdrew their retaliatory tariffs of 7 percent to 25 percent on approximately $20 billion of U.S. exports.
    https://www.americanactionforum.org/...s-new-tariffs/

  6. #576
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    He should continue. And so should all future Presidents. We lost our nation due to free trade, for the most part.
    These people want slaves. Cost didn't matter to a steelmaker in the 70's. It only mattered to businesses who wanted stuff for nothing. Stuff has a cost.
    Our businessmen don't need third world and communist slaves...and neither do we as consumers.
    Those numbers only matter to the one percent and to businesses who don't want to pay anything including to their employees. The reason we didn't have stuff for the virus is because we gave those industries away.

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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    This article is tied to last weeks Supreme court decision about the steel tariff issue. It talks about using the claim of national security for adding many tariffs and the costs to jobs and the economy.

    Will Congress Rein in Tariff Abuse?
    Last week, the Supreme Court declined to hear arguments in a case filed by American steel importers challenging the constitutionality of the Trump administration’s 25 percent tariffs on foreign steel. While the decision is no doubt disappointing for the estimated 6.5 million Americans employed in steel-consuming industries, it should also serve as a wake-up call for a Congress that has so far been unable to rein in tariff abuse.
    But there is much more at stake here than the constitutional question of whether Congress can delegate such tariff powers to the president. Unchecked by Congress and now the Supreme Court, the administration’s tariffs on steel and aluminum have helped to entrench protectionist industrial policies, divided the president’s own party about their value to the economy, ignited fierce turf wars and lobbying battles, and left economic uncertainty and lost jobs in their wake.
    The Trump administration, however, appears to have dusted off Section 232 to suit the president’s political aims, opening an unprecedented eight new Section 232 investigations since 2017. Considered as a whole, these actions point to a troubling conclusion: An outdated, Cold War–era statute designed to protect the national defense has been slowly and steadily repurposed as a unilateral tool for industrial policymaking.
    The Peterson Institute estimated that for each job created or saved by the tariff, the cost to Americans would be $900,000. But the president has been loath to rescind any of these tariffs, even after supposedly using them as leverage to renegotiate trade agreements with Canada, Mexico, and South Korea. In fact, the tariffs on Canada and Mexico were removed only after Senate Finance Committee chairman Chuck Grassley penned an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal declaring, as the headline put it, “Trump’s Tariffs End, or His Trade Deal Dies.”
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/...t-limit-abuse/

  8. #578
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    All the bluster and claims of bringing jobs back hasn't happened. So far, all that's happened is costs have risen, jobs have disappeared, and the promise to bring manufacturing back to the US has fizzled.

    Trump’s Trade Policy Update: Japan Carmakers To Triple Mexico Pay Rather Than Move To U.S.
    Japanese car companies are not moving production to the U.S. as Trump had hoped they would with his new trade policies.
    “The new North American free trade agreement that goes into effect Wednesday was touted by U.S. President Donald Trump as an engine of American job creation. But Japan’s automakers are largely opting instead to keep operations in place and pay Mexican workers more or even just pay tariffs.
    The US-Mexico-Canada Agreement requires 40% or more of parts for each passenger vehicle be manufactured by workers who are paid at least $16 per hour as a condition to make them tariff free in the region. Trump hailed that feature as a way to boost production in the U.S., which has a higher hourly rate than Mexico.
    Honda Motor-affiliated parts maker Keihin will raise the hourly wage of employees at a factory in Mexico to $16 by next month — triple the average rate of a parts factory in Mexico, but still cheaper than making a move.
    Toyota Motor, which built a new plant in Mexico in 2015, is not finding it easy to change plans either. ‘We don’t want to be whipped around by a policy that we don’t know how long it will last,’ said an executive at a Japanese automaker.
    Toyota has told the U.S. government that it will invest $13 billion in America over a five-year period beginning in 2017, but most of this commitment was made before Trump became president.
    Consumers will ultimately pay the price for inefficient production and increased component flow. U.S. research agency Center for Automotive Research estimates that 13% to 24% of all cars sold in the U.S. will be subject to tariffs. If automakers pass these costs on, prices will rise by $470 to $2,200.
    The center also said U.S. car sales will drop by up to 1.3 million units annually due to the Trump administration’s trade policy — including sanctions on China. It estimates that 70,000 to 360,000 jobs will be lost, leading to a $6 billion to $30.4 billion reduction in gross domestic product.”
    http://labor411.org/411-blog/trumps-...UiHONzUs0bldIQ

  9. #579
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    Nobody has mentioned anything about the China tariffs.
    I guess we can chalk it up to another of the claims made by this administration that meant nothing.
    Trade wars are good, and easy to win
    Well maybe not so much.

    Trump dims hopes for new China trade deal
    President Trump damped expectations for a promised phase-two trade pact with China on Friday, saying the relationship between the countries has been too badly damaged by the coronavirus pandemic, reported the Wall Street Journal.

    “I don’t think about it now,” Trump told reporters aboard Air Force One, where he criticized China’s response to the new coronavirus, which continues to spread rapidly throughout the US “They could have stopped the plague, they could have stopped it, they didn’t stop it.”

    The economic fallout from the pandemic also made it increasingly unlikely that China would meet its targets for expanded purchases of US goods under the phase-one deal, fueling further doubts about prospects for new talks.

    “It’s not feasible to expect phase two to start until phase one is implemented and the overall environment of the US-China relationship improves,” said Myron Brilliant, executive vice president and head of international affairs at the US Chamber of Commerce.
    https://chinaeconomicreview.com/trum...na-trade-deal/

  10. #580
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    Default Re: Tariffs and trade !

    Quote Originally Posted by fxstc07 View Post
    Nobody has mentioned anything about the China tariffs.
    I guess we can chalk it up to another of the claims made by this administration that meant nothing.
    Trade wars are good, and easy to win
    Well maybe not so much.

    Trump dims hopes for new China trade deal


    https://chinaeconomicreview.com/trum...na-trade-deal/
    I don't think Trump will cave to China as past administrations have done.. Sleepy Joe will be right back in their pocket and our jobs along with it.. But it seems some will be happy as long as they can get their cheap at Walmart..

 

 
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